Jarvee vs IG mouse movement detection

Instagram Marketing
#1

Hey guys !

First of all and for context, I am currently not a jarvee user as I moved all my automations to more human like systems ranging from my private browser based bot to android automation which uses the IG official app to do all the actions .

Having said that, I remember a few months ago when IG updated their algorithm and stepped up their bot detection game, one of the things that was clear was that it now uses mouse movement detection to flag bots, which really isnt something hard to do , Im actually surprised it took them so long to implement such feature when it`s already widely used in other websites such as Anti DDOS reverse proxies, etc .

Now, I know for a fact that they use this as I have personally tested it myself while using Growbot Chrome extension or any other selenium based bots which were easily flagged and blocked .

After I developed my own custom solution which emulates mouse movement, I stopped getting these constant blocks …

Ok but back to the main topic, I remember Jarvee also was severely impacted by these changes and it started being unusable for automation since it was easily detected after IG updates .

However, its now been nearly a year since these updates and from what Ive been reading people are back to using Jarvee with a good success rate, which leads me to the main question of this topic :

How is it possible that Jarvee isnt getting blocks anymore if it doesnt actually emulate real mouse movement ? As far as I know all actions (even embedded browser ones) are not emulating mouse movement at all so how is it possible that it`s no longer getting flagged by IG ?

Are all the automations based on the unofficial IG API ? Thats the only logical answer I see here, that they took the unofficial API, changed user agents and fixed some more fingerprints and are still using that to make all the actions. But if thats the case, why did all other bots which were using the unofficial API stopped working ? It;s hard to believe that if the solution was so simple more bots wouldn`t be using it by now …

Also, I believe the safe settings for automating main account all envolve disabling the api emulation and using embedded browser actions, correct me if I`m wrong please .

I still believe my current automation solution is much safer since all actions are mymicing human interactions but Jarvee would just make it so much more convenient for managing multiple accounts .

Would love to hear the opinions of all those of you still using jarvee with success these days

#2

There is two modes.

[Jarvee API] = Mobile Endpoints
[Jarvee Embedded Browser] = Web Endpoints

Afaik mouse movement is not sent from the browser under normal usage. You can check under Network tab in your chrome browser if you want to test it yourself. There is some extra packages being sent, but afaik mouse movement is not one of them and never has been.

Jarvee never had access to the official API and never will (which is not a bad thing).

#3

Yes I know it doesn’t emulate mouse movement which is exactly why it doesn’t make sense for jarvee to not get detected by IG .

Also, everyone seems to be using the embedded browser actions for automations and mobile endpoints / API only for scraping, which reinforces my theory .

I never talked about the official IG API, that’s a totally different thing . What everyone was using in the industry before was the unofficial IG API, which is no longer an option since IG now seems to be able to easily detect it .

#4

I and many other people have been using [Jarvee API] only for over 2 years now, barely any problems. The only thing I can ensure you that the [Jarvee API] (Mobile Endpoints) were never really “detected”. Detected would mean bans left and right and not just blocks from time to time.

Instagram does not always apply logic to things, which is why testing is and always will be key on that platform. Take as an example “fake” residential IPs that were working for many years now, which could have been easily spotted, because there are no real users on those IP ranges.

#5

@HenryCooper so what are you saying , that you use API mode over Embbeded Browser for your automations ? Because from what I’ve seen from nearly every guide for safe settings for Jarvee in 2020 every single one of them mentions disabling the mobile endpoints (except for scrapers) and going with embbeded browser actions …

Well if you are getting blocked more than normal that means you got detected, ban is just a last resort for accounts which insist in not playing by the rules, doesn’t mean you don’t get flagged before it happens , it’s all about trust score and from the moment IG is blocking your actions when you aren’t even making that many actions it means your trust score is already getting hit!

#6

If you are running a client account use EB to prevent chances of 24 hour review

For low trust score accounts like Child accounts we use API as there are much less blocks… much easier to run. Solve Captcha here and there but better than EB

1 Like
#7

Well, those people earn money by teaching, not by actually practicing. But to answer your question: Yes. In my personal opinion, the Mobile Endpoints reflect the current state of the account better. It gives me the possibility to steer in the right direction before there is a crash. The Web Endpoints are the push-through-it-no-matter-the-consequences option.

The Web Endpoints have been used to push through limits for a long time now, but they are also a cause of bad account trust and not people being unable to pinpoint which of their settings are bad.

Afaik (it has been a bit of time now that I was touching the Mobile Endpoints myself), there are even some endpoints which are only reachable by mobile and not possible to request by the Web Endpoints. But that might have changed.

All this reflects my personal experience tho, so there are many many things I do differently than other people, not just Web vs Mobile Endpoints.

#8

Thanks for the insights, that confirms my suspicions that embbeded browser actions are in fact getting flagged for the lack of mouse movement, it’s just that they can’t obviously straight ban an account based merely on this as at the end of the day you can still perfom browser actions without using your mouse …

As for the API actions, how frequently are you getting captchas ? Pretty sure those are getting detected , otherwise we wouldn’t see all IG Bots getting shut down as 99% of them used the mobile endpoints …

#9

That is simple not true, please go and check that particular fact on your own browser.

Different reasons, maybe. But not mouse movement.

#10

Like I stated in the main topic, I have already tested this , and I did so throughly .

Anything that messes with the page javascript and performs any actions based on the elements on the page gets flagged .

Not sure why you are saying mouse movement is not detecrted when this has already been discussed in other topics and I have tested it myself .

Try to use any chrome extension to automate IG in your browser and you will see how fast you get blocked . If I do it while moving mouse the blocks will be gone

#11

You mean the client logging events? Those are not really mouse movement, since those can be executed (and even just sent via a POST request) without any real mouse movement involved. There is a checkbox in the advanced profile settings that should send the client logging events.

Those requests are blocked by adblockers too by default it seems.

#12

Out of interest have you tested how many follows, likes and unfollows you can do manually using the browser with mouse actions?

#13

I actually programmed my automation alone using python. For my mains, I use automation for story, dm’s and follows and i got no problems so far. I am also not posting to the client logging event endpoint.

#14

I mean both …

You can actually see this information in Instagram Data Policy Page :thinking:

Data Policy :

Device operations: information about operations and behaviors performed on the device, such as whether a window is foregrounded or backgrounded, or mouse movements (which can help distinguish humans from bots).

Idk maybe they got softer after the first big wave that got all the bots shutdown … But the fact is when I tried any kind of automation that was using selenium / javascript or any actions not envolving real interaction with mouse movement it failed big time compared to making automations on a browser with real mouse movement .

1 Like
#15

Certainly less than with the app but I can’t tell you for sure as it depends on a lot of factors, including the trust score of the account you are using .

What I can tell you is that I did over 100 actions for a few days without issues

1 Like
#16

You mean, using a real browser ?

Cos I don’t see how that could work otherwise, all selenium based tools and python based bots stopped working (instabot.py for instance) .

If you’re not automating on a real browser I only see two ways to get away with something like that :

  1. You aren’t actually doing any significative number of actions so you stay under the radar

  2. They might be getting a lot of false positives and decided to tune down the settings for bot detection after shutting down the whole automation market

It’s not like you are doing anything that hasn’t already been tried by many people before …

#17

@DanielAdmin maybe you can shed more light on this topic.

#18

I use igbot. From what I tested so far: if you do too much follow and unfollow actions via Mobile-Api-Calls on the Accounts you will get a device-id-block. That means that your actions are not blocked completly, but only for a specific device.

DM’s, Stories, Posts etc. work without any flaws. From what I’ve seen, client logging events could really be the cause here. I am already trying to reverse engineer it to see what actually happens there.

After all I think pure automation via API-Call’s will never die out. To have a EB is easier but Mobile Api is saving resources and is faster.

#19

@Kaylon I checked back with the Jarvee devs. If you tick the emulation checkbox, Jarvee should send all the required client logging events. And as it seems it is the only software out there that actually does that and gets regular support.

For my personal preference, I test via results and do not try to apply logic to Instagram. So I always try to dig deeper into testing and results over apply my own logic to Instagram :smiley:

#20

I think you figured out your issue already in your own paragraph. Selenium is so elementary to detect don’t use it. It’s not really about mouse movement but more about browser/device fingerprinting.

FB has invented many of the modern device fingerprinting techniques so just to give you an idea of what you’re up against.

Well I mean Selenium can be used if you know how to cloak it but it requires lots of knowledge of how browsers and web pages work in the backend. Complicated and detailed stuff I recommend reading some academic papers on the topic so you can grasp a better understanding of the subject. You will find many answers there.